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nanuk
07/25/2007 6:05 PM

... please, what makes a computer game-based thread appealing?

Genuine question- I just don't get it.


I like computer games. I spend a lot of time and money on them. My PS2 is like an adopted child, my 360 a slightly less-loved cousin: but I just don't understand why people play game-based threads.

Even based on a more story oriented game, I wouldn't really want to play it (I don't like playing with pre-made/established characters, I feel too limited), but when I see games based on shooters/war series...
I just don't get it.

Maybe it's just because I don't like guns and find them boring, and posts in that kind of a thread usually contain a lot of different gun names which just mean zilch to me- maybe that just makes me switch off.

Maybe it's because, if I have to shoot something, I'd like some lovely graphics and xp/rewards to go along with it.

Maybe it's because I just don't like shooting/war type games anyway- or even threads that have a lot of combat.

But I just can't understand- what's the 'reward' from a post like that? In an RP when I post I like to feel that I've had a chance to be a little creative, that I've contributed even a little to the story, but I just can't... it doesn't seem like that can always be said for heavily combat oriented posts.
I don't know.

I'm not trying to say they're rubbish threads (;)) I just genuinely would like to know more about the appeal of it.

There are a couple of them around on the site at the moment so if someone would take the time to explain to me why they'd rather write a (usually sorter than other RP post length) post than play the game for a bit I'd be much obliged.



Scrapper, for example :)
I've been in a couple of threads with you, and they're usually the more story type ones- but at the mo you're in a mech one also, and the Gears of War one. For you is it just to have a change? Violent streak? What? Enlighten me!

darknightrei
07/25/2007 6:22 PM

For me, the appeal of playing a game based in an established world is that you can place yourself inside that world and in ways that the game doesn't allow. It's the same thing as playing, per se, a campaign from a book in DnD, or a set of threads based in Dragonlance or FR. You aren't ACTUALLY playing as Elminster, Raistlin(Sp...sorry guys you can berate me later, but I'm not big on DL), or Marcus Fenix, you are playing an original person who just happens to exist in that realm. I hope that was of some help.

nanuk
07/25/2007 6:29 PM


I hope that was of some help.


No, no it wasn't :P

I get you- I have nothing, usually, against established settings: once they're quite rich, like DL/Fr/LOTR etc they give you loads of scope and freedom.

But the setting from the type of game I'm describing usually are nowhere near that detailed- and character development (where you have a lot of options with the above-mentioned settings) just doesn't really come into it. The threads are more aout shooting things or blowing stuff up- that's more what I meant.

I'm not saying all combat-based threads are, by definition, devoid of plot or character development, but it just seems to me that a lot of the time (but not always, lol) those kinds of things take a back seat. It becomes more about naming as many types of weapon that you can, and getting a high body count.




Raistlin(Sp...sorry guys you can berate me later, but I'm not big on DL)


Nah, you got it right :)
Kiefer Sutherland's voicing him in the film! Kiefer Sutherland!! So excited!

darknightrei
07/25/2007 6:32 PM

There's a Chronicles MOVIE?

nanuk
07/25/2007 6:48 PM

:D

[url:http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0825245/]Animated[/url], but I'm still bloody excited.



And I forgot to mention in my previous post 'ah, dk, the perfect one to answer my question', lol.

Flark
07/26/2007 7:43 AM


... please, what makes a computer game-based thread appealing?

A decent GM. End of.

Zaroth
07/28/2007 12:07 PM

I'm new at this but I have read many of the threads here and I'd say in some cases playing a more fighting oriented thread is just the same as playing any other thread. Just because theres alot of shooting doesn't necessarily mean there's no story line, and defanatly does not mean you can't be creative. If anything you might need to be alittle more descriptive and creative about your surroundings or your enemys, it makes it all the more interesting. Some people just like to write about fighting. It is a personal appeal to a certain person I guess. People have different tastes in writing, and there are those that get a kick out of fighting, and the accomplishment is seeing that you have defeated your enemy and your mission is complete. I like almost any type of thread out there, I may not be in them, but they're fun to read! I hope this helped you out! sorry if it was disjointed, I get excited when I write and all my ideas come out at the same time.

Tamachi
07/28/2007 8:53 PM

I certainly agree, with what Zaroth has to say, and Flark I agree with somewhat, although without the players there would be no RPG, so they serve a rather big part... :P

At any rate, I also believe it has a lot to do with timing as to whether or not a combat-oriented thread is fun, at least that's how it is for me. If I did nothing but fight in all of my posts, not only would I grow bored, but I would feel that I am not allowing my writing abilities their full compass, and it would be like cheating myself...

Combat-oriented posts appeal to me because I can get down to the primal, more simplistic mind of the normal person, especially with gun-related RPGs. I am able to really feel out a character through killing another person, whether they be apprehensive of it or enjoy every second, and I feel that it is a interesting thing to convey to others. At the same time, they sometimes grow old, and I long for more plot-oriented RPGs, not to say that the others have no plot. I merely mean to say that at time I like the peace and tranquility that I get to write about. It's a very big change, but also a very fun one for me...

So to me timing has a lot to do with whether or not I'll enjoy a combat-oriented thread, as right now I am actually looking for a more mellowed, real world RPG to join. I'm actually trying to think of one. Hopefully it'll be up in the Idea Section soon enough, I don't know...

nanuk
07/29/2007 3:00 AM


I'm new at this but I have read many of the threads here and I'd say in some cases playing a more fighting oriented thread is just the same as playing any other thread.


In [i]some[/i] cases.
As I've said I'm not saying all combat oriented threads have no storyline but it just appears to me, as a reader, that storyline and character development take a back seat. Or even the potential to be descriptive (even with, say, sword combat, it's easier to be descriptive with the actual fight than with shooting- you point, you pull the trigger, you hit something or you don't. You can be descriptive about [i]where[/i] you are, the shooters feelings/reactions, but, more often than not, that's not something people seem bothered about).



If anything you might need to be alittle more descriptive and creative about your surroundings or your enemys, it makes it all the more interesting


To be honest that's true of any thread- but I get your point that in certain kinds of thread it might be even [i]more[/i] important. My impression, though, is that it's not always done.
Again, I'm not saying every player and every post in a combat thread is bare of description but, from what I've read, often a good proportion of posts, when it's in the heat of combat, are 4, 5 liners, that boil down to 'I shoot this, it dies. I shoot this other thing, oh I miss! I shoot it again, it dies'.

If I was someone who was interested in that type of thread it would piss me off no end to read a post like that.

And that's the kind of post that makes me unable to understand what people get out of that type of RPing: you're not being creative, you're not being descriptive, you're doing nothing for the story, you're not developing the character (these types of posts I'm talking about don't usually give any kind of reaction from the shooter- as Tamachi said how someone reacts to killing is a good way to get into character but it's something that's often neglected, beyond 'w00t, I killed something'). From those types of posts it would seem that the poster is most interested in a body count- which means, surely, they'd be better served playing the game? If I can write a single post saying I kill a hundred somethings, when in the game I'd have to work at it, where's the achievement in that? Where's the satisfaction? I'm exaggerating in terms of numbers, of course, but the principle is the same. The poster decides whether they kill something successfully or not, it's not a matter of skill- which means, of course, that I disagree with this:


and the accomplishment is seeing that you have defeated your enemy and your mission is complete


;)

Now, as I've been saying, I know not everyone writes like that (lately in particular there seems to be a lot more effort put in to combat threads here), but [i]the majority of what I've read[/i] [b]is[/b] like that, and that's the stuff I'm questioning.

Of course if you take the time to work out your character's motives and emotions, and describe the surroundings and the enemy, and the logistics of the fight, the physical reactions involved during the fight and after, it makes it little different from a non-combat thread, [i]but[/i] I still think it involves less character development than other kinds of threads- mainly because the opportunities to do so are limited. There isn't often a lot of 'down time' in combat threads, which is usually the point in other threads where you have char dev. Of course people RP for different reasons but for me, and a lot of others I wuld imagine, char dev is one of the most important and rewarding aspects of it- seeing something you've created grow, develop unanticipated facets- and that's the primary reason I dislike combat threads.




I hope this helped you out


Thanks for taking the time :)


If I did nothing but fight in all of my posts, not only would I grow bored, but I would feel that I am not allowing my writing abilities their full compass, and it would be like cheating myself...


That would be a big part of why I'm not interested in that type of thread- and, as I've said, most of what I've read does tend to be that way. I don't know if this is because previous threads of that type on the site have been largely patronised by, ah, newer players, who just put next to no thought into their posts besides deciding how many things they'd kill in them (perhaps the fact that most of these players are no longer with us is telling... ;)

Eh, maybe it's them- and my hatred of guns- that's made me so biased against this type of thread, lol.
I'll keep an eye on you guys and let you know if you manage to change my mind ;)

Tamachi
07/31/2007 3:25 PM

Very good points nanuk, but I think you've just been deprived of a good combat-oriented RPG...


I'll keep an eye on you guys and let you know if you manage to change my mind ;)


Tell ya what, go here...

[url:http://www.rpgconsortium.com/rpgforums/discussions.cfm?forumid=4&topicid=287317]Era of Revenge: File # 345C3 "Finishing the Fight"[/url]

...and tell me if you still feel the same way. It's a Gears of War thread that Verbalscrapper, a few others, and I are participating in. For the sake of this thread and its discussion, focus more on Verbalscrapper's and my posts, as they are more what I'm talking about. Don't forget to check out the characters in the OOC Section, and just so you know I think the best posts are on Page 4. Happy reading, I hope you enjoy them as much as I did... :D

Azrican_Republic
07/31/2007 3:45 PM

Hehe! He's talking about my Thread!


I have to go hop into new pants now. Sorry everyone.


But really it's all about what kind of people like what kind of things. Like for me, I don't find swinging around a sword and a lance fun (Not to sound mean). And some people might not find firing a rifle at someone fun. It's just what everyone chooses to like.

[Edited by Azrican_Republic on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 3:47 PM]

nanuk
07/31/2007 5:04 PM


[url:http://www.rpgconsortium.com/rpgforums/discussions.cfm?forumid=4&topicid=287317]Era of Revenge: File # 345C3 "Finishing the Fight"[/url]

...and tell me if you still feel the same way. I


I read [i]all[/i] threads.

Omnipresent, I am ;)

Granted, I do skim a few... I'll try and read this one more carefully, lol.




I don't find swinging around a sword and a lance fun (Not to sound mean)


Of course it's not mean, it's about personal preferences like you said- but I find it easier to understand why ppl would enjoy sword style combat more entertaining purely because, at least on a superficial level, it seems like you can do more with it. Not that there aren't more than a few of the 'i stabbb u wit sord- you DIIIIE!!1oneone!!' posts, but even just describing the mechanics of the combat it seems like there's more range.

Meh, as I said, I'm just biased, lol.

Tamachi
07/31/2007 9:27 PM


And some people might not find firing a rifle at someone fun.


Actually, I'm one of those people, but writing about it is fine... ;)


Meh, as I said, I'm just biased, lol.


Eh, to each their own...

TheCritch
08/03/2007 8:45 AM

Personally I really don't like guns at all in RPs I participate in and if they're there then I'll probably make a character that favors close quarters combat. I think that fighting in RPs is essential, it gives the character a whole plethora of morale issues to sift through making for some rather interesting thought processes and personal belief systems that will either align with or collide with other character's points of view. As for the 'point and shoot' type of combat that nanuk described, which is often void of any character insight or development, in close quarters you really have to challenge both your character and yourself to find solutions to combat situations and variables. When I join an RP which will involve alot of combat I usually make a character who can make something more of the conflicts he or she participates in. For example my character in Iorlas' "Sith Academy" makes for more involving combat scenes because he makes so much of combat in his lifestyle. Sliqis practically worships combat and all its subtleties, he also tends to obsess over his battles and his targets making for great opportunities to dive into his twisted mind. I like to make my combat posts fraught with detailed actions and intense insights into the frantic minds of my characters as they struggle in their fight to survive and prove their philosophies righteous through the glory of combat.

Mind you, I have nothing against non-combat threads and I don't condone story-less threads full of mindless violence.

I personally like threads that have both a deep story and rich combat.

nanuk
08/03/2007 9:27 AM


Sliqis practically worships combat and all its subtleties,



.... ah, yes... subtlety is the first word that springs to mind when I think of people who wear innards as jewellery... :P

Azrican_Republic
08/03/2007 2:59 PM

Mindless Violence=FUN, don't deny it. But every once in a while you should have a nice Medieval style Rp where you can talk to someone...and -then- get to the bad ass sword fighting.

Now for my entire time of Roleplaying I haven't been in a Pre-Projectile-Based Rp maybe, over...twice? So I'm seriously thinking I should get in touch with my Medieval side.

[Edited by Azrican_Republic on Friday, August 3, 2007 3:01 PM]

TheCritch
08/03/2007 4:15 PM


.... ah, yes... subtlety is the first word that springs to mind when I think of people who wear innards as jewellery... :P

Oh common... My post wasn't even the least bit helpful?

Lunitari0
08/03/2007 9:46 PM

I've never played game based threads - mostly because I can't play video games (lack of hand control), so I don't follow them enough to play threads here.

Darthwedge
08/05/2007 2:00 PM

Time for me to jump on the bandwagon hehehe.......

I personaly think that there is a line that divides them and one needs an even amount of both to survive ;). There are RPs that are plot oriented but have lots of combat as well. Then there are RPs that are plot driven and maybe a small battle here and there. Then there are the massive combat oriented RPs.

Personally, I think mindless violence RPs are boring and have no flavor. I like the Plot Driven ones mostly because its more mentally stimulating. Example: The Unknown Subject (Star Wars RP, check it out :D). When I started it, truthfully, I expected lots of battles to ensue with a lot of combat. What happened was quite the oposite, speeches and verbal boutes constantly show up.

nanuk
08/05/2007 4:05 PM

You have absolutely no shame about whoring yourself and your threads, do you? :P

Unknown Subject, eh? That must be one of the few SW threads I'm not in... ;)

With SW threads there's the potential to go either way- combat oriented or plot driven because the background is so rich. With something like Halo I can't see that same potential, which is, I suppose, where I was coming from at the start of the thread.

Granted, I haven't played GOW, so not knowing the story and depth of the world it's set in I can't judge. But I'd have my suspicions ;)

Darthwedge
08/05/2007 4:09 PM


You have absolutely no shame about whoring yourself and your threads, do you? :P

Nope, none whatsoever. :D


Unknown Subject, eh? That must be one of the few SW threads I'm not in... ;)

Unknwon Subject and No Subject are the same thing. Jay coined Unknown which is why I use that.


With SW threads there's the potential to go either way- combat oriented or plot driven because the background is so rich. With something like Halo I can't see that same potential, which is, I suppose, where I was coming from at the start of the thread.


Yeah, Halo doesn't really seem to have a "rich" storyline, there really isnt any way to expand it after Halo 3 comes out in my opinion. Although, It does have the potential, with a lot of work and luck, to be very large, plotwise.

Tamachi
08/06/2007 12:17 AM


Yeah, Halo doesn't really seem to have a "rich" storyline, there really isnt any way to expand it after Halo 3 comes out in my opinion.


Personally, I think [i]Halo[/i] has a very rich storyline to me, but I have also read the books so I know a lot more about them more than likely. In the [i]Halo[/i] games you only see the aspect of the Master Chief, Spartan 117, but there is a lot more going on outside of his missions that a lot of people don't know about. Actually, there is a book coming out in October, and two more planned for after that, so the storyline will most definitely live on after [i]Hale 3[/i] comes out...

Darthwedge
08/06/2007 8:32 AM

It will live on, its just a standard Sci-Fi Alien Invasion story with a few plot twists. Plus, they rip off almost everything from starship troopers......

Tamachi
08/06/2007 8:21 PM


Plus, they rip off almost everything from starship troopers......


How so?..

EDIT: And are you referring to the book, the movie, or both?..

[Edited by Tamachi on Tuesday, August 7, 2007 1:48 AM]

Darthwedge
08/07/2007 8:04 AM


How so?..


Everything, the uniforms, armor, weapons, concept, everything. Oh well, Im done argueing, my opinions are my own.



And are you referring to the book, the movie, or both?..

Both

TheCritch
08/07/2007 11:05 AM


It will live on, its just a standard Sci-Fi Alien Invasion story with a few plot twists. Plus, they rip off almost everything from starship troopers......

I would like to disagree. Starship Troopers was nothing like Halo... In Halo the aliens are intelligent and have a highly technologically advanced civilization, with religion and highly separated society castes. And in Halo 2 we dived even further into this alien culture when we played as an honourable warrior trying to fight generations of strict tradition and religious influence. In Starship Troopers the aliens were quite simply mindless giant bugs that were controlled by a hive mind, in other words... NOTHING LIKE THE ALIENS IN HALO!

The weapons in Halo are nothing that in Starship Troopers either. The aliens didn't even have weapons in Starship Troopers and the Human weapons weren't nearly as diverse or detailed.

Halo also sported a rich story devoid of a lot of the cliches that plague most Alien Invasion stories, especially when they made a sort of hero out of one of those aliens in Halo Two, giving the story a second perspective. Also notice that the aliens were driven more so by religious agendas in their invasion than the more animalistic motives that the aliens in Starship Troopers have.

Not to mention that the character depth in Starship Troopers was puddle deep. The characters were just a bunch of living breathing cliches with cheezey lines and corny story roles. Halo's characters had a bit more depth... Especially in Halo 2 when we get inside the alien's heads.

The Starship Troopers universe is just the kind of empty, run-of-the-mill, soley action driven crap that I think threads should never be based on or placed within.

[Edited by TheCritch on Tuesday, August 7, 2007 11:08 AM]

Tamachi
08/12/2007 1:26 AM

Well, I guess you beat me to it...

Nicely put TheCritch...

Lich_Nexus
08/12/2007 7:23 AM


Genuine question- I just don't get it.


It's a penis thing. And I won't elaborate unless you ask for it.

Lich_Nexus
08/12/2007 7:29 AM


Not to mention that the character depth in Starship Troopers was puddle deep. The characters were just a bunch of living breathing cliches with cheezey lines and corny story roles.


I think the social commentary of Starship Troopers went [i]way[/i] over your head there Critch.

Tamachi
08/13/2007 3:33 AM

Well, I don't know about the characters, but I know a lot of the debates got into some pretty deep issues. The fact that you had to serve before you could become a citizen actually makes a lot of sense to me, and it is believed the debates in the book are actually Heinlein's personal views...

However, that doesn't change that Halo is not based on it...

TheCritch
08/13/2007 3:46 AM


The fact that you had to serve before you could become a citizen actually makes a lot of sense to me

Yeah actually that's a reference to Spartan society actually. You couldn't become a citizen until you had served in the military for so many years.


I think the social commentary of Starship Troopers went [i]way[/i] over your head there Critch.


Not really, the book was pretty straight forward and the so-called subtleties of Starship Troopers were pretty evident, they didn't fly over my head, it's just that they were overdone concepts with little in the way of worth, which is probably why I had neglected to mention them. The whole thing is rather lacking in the way of originality... It was a decent movie but it was far from a masterpiece and the same goes for the book.

Lich_Nexus
08/13/2007 7:48 AM


Not really


No, really...

You complain the characters lack depth. The government in Starship Troopers is a Military Dictatorship; one shouldn't look for depth or individual characteristics from a member of a totolatarian society. Lack of character depth was the whole point, complaining about it suggests one missed it completely.

The aliens and their society and weaponry/technology is moot. They serve as a metaphor to parady the way one side of a conflict dehumanizes the enemy to such an extreme, they become insects. Such conditioning enables some kid from Bumfuck, Alabama reprieve from moral consideration as he drops a payload from a B-52 over some city.

You're correct in saying they are nothing alike. But there is no comparison. One is about an alien invasion... the other is exploration of human nature and our self-destructing willingness to use warfare as a means to obtain peace.

LunaMaria
08/14/2007 5:07 AM

Starship troopers the films weren't great but were a great way to cool off, watching a load of troops shoot up piles of bugs it's like a lava lamp. But the extend uni stuff makes it a really interesting take on humanity and a future we could take. I'm not one for Halo, or for Xbox but have played Halo 1 on PC and it's ok but I had no drive to complete it in anything other than easy. Now is starship troopers was made into a game and that game plays just like halo minus the guns and the aliens. I just never liked the look of the aliens on halo.

On the Topic of computer game RPs, if you have to take a character then it would most likely be less fun. Game RP are easy to work with as often the universe is premade and often in the same universe but with a different storylines. Take the FF thread just the themes of FF are used to create a new universe and people are free to come up with new charaters, just some want to play as their favorites

As for modern battle RPs, you need to get the balance right and battle seens are hander to write but can have greator effect and a god one will have more detail.

A sword RP you would write, "He was slashed by the blade in the gut, the blood oused from the gash. There was a squelch as the sword was removed and the guard fell to his knees.

A gun RP you would write, "He rounded the conner, he saw the guard who too saw him, he dived back behind the wall. He could hear the guard walking backward letting off a yell, He pushed off the wall coming low he squeezed the trigger giving off a shower of Kevlar into the guards gut, blood and flesh being thrown from him."

It's a different style of writing but there isn't a drastic difference it's just a matter of taste

TheCritch
08/14/2007 7:17 AM


No, really...

You complain the characters lack depth. The government in Starship Troopers is a Military Dictatorship; one shouldn't look for depth or individual characteristics from a member of a totolatarian society. Lack of character depth was the whole point, complaining about it suggests one missed it completely.

The aliens and their society and weaponry/technology is moot. They serve as a metaphor to parady the way one side of a conflict dehumanizes the enemy to such an extreme, they become insects. Such conditioning enables some kid from Bumfuck, Alabama reprieve from moral consideration as he drops a payload from a B-52 over some city.


Hmmm... I have never thought of it like that before. Thank you for this enlightening new outlook on what I had otherwise considered shallow and empty. I had never payed such close attention to the movie in the first place, it's nice to know someone has, otherwise I'd have possibly distorted the views of others on an otherwise invaluable piece of media. Thank you!

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