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Dark_Elf57
01/25/2006 5:00 AM

Is anyone interested in possibly starting a middle earth campaign?

Balthazar_Estat
01/25/2006 6:42 AM

Yeah why not!

Damien
01/25/2006 7:42 AM

I suggest not starting a campaign set in a world that you can't punctuate properly (Middle-earth).

I also suggest never starting an RP in a setting unless you have a really good knowledge of the setting. Otherwise, not only are you doing an injustice to the setting, but you're bound to piss off players that actually do know about the setting.

Caelin
01/25/2006 10:18 AM

Although there are ways to circumvent the needed knowledge of the setting, by having it in an fairly unknown area. Finding the unknown area however does require knowledge of the setting. ;)

What did you have in mind, DE57, perhaps I can help?

Dream_Knight
01/25/2006 11:36 AM

It's worth giving it a try. If you get the interest then start it. If you need help a Sage can help you understand the world a bit better as you go along. Do not let other members discourage you.

Chung

Damien
01/25/2006 12:07 PM


Do not let other members discourage you.


Why not?

In my opinion it is better to be discouraged from a bad idea so that you can pursue a good idea, than to pursue a bad idea simply because you do not want to be discouraged.

Maybe Dark_Elf is uber-knowledged in Cyberpunk and could make a great, lasting Cyberpunk RP - I see no reason why he shouldn't be steered in a direction that he knows more about and seems more capable of handling.

Dream_Knight
01/25/2006 5:54 PM


In my opinion it is better to be discouraged from a bad idea so that you can pursue a good idea, than to pursue a bad idea simply because you do not want to be discouraged.


Because you're bad idea maybe a good idea for someone else? I saw a lot of bad ideas (in my opinion) and they thrive just fine.

Just because they didn't punctuate a word doesn't mean they don't know enough about the setting to RP in either. ;)

Chung

Damien
01/25/2006 7:35 PM


Just because they didn't punctuate a word doesn't mean they don't know enough about the setting to RP in either. ;)



Fair enough.



Well, Dark_Elf, if you insist on going forward I'll offer what help I can, same as Caelin, to keep you on the right track, if you have any interest in keeping true to the setting, that is.

Dark_Elf57
01/26/2006 4:47 AM


Well, Dark_Elf, if you insist on going forward I'll offer what help I can, same as Caelin, to keep you on the right track, if you have any interest in keeping true to the setting, that is.


I intend to go forward, and would gladly accept any knowledge you or others could provide abotu Middle-earth.

I don't plan on being the only person making up the plot and such.

Would any others like to help create this campaign?

Caelin
01/26/2006 1:02 PM

DE_57, if you have ideas or would like feedback on the setting (such as where best to start for a lot of adventure, harsh territories, etc) just drop me a PM or post the question here. :)

I'll be keeping an eye on it.

Dark_Elf57
01/27/2006 4:42 AM

I would like to start in an area where characters can interact with NPC's and can still be a site for a great battle. Preferablly not an area that already is known for a great battle already.

Could you supply some ideas?

[Edited by Dark_Elf57 on Friday, January 27, 2006 4:42 AM]

Damien
01/27/2006 5:15 AM

What -age- do you want to set your RP in? Every answer anyone can give you is dependant on that.

I'm assuming here that you're going for mid-to-late Third Age/early Fourth Age, as that's what most people are familiar with. But you're really need to let everyone know right off when, exactly, you want this to take place.


Anyway, depending on the age in question - Bree is a strong possibility. Lots of NPCs and it's still technically enough of a 'frontier' village that it can be threatened by invasion from a number of Sauron's lackeys or generally bad people.

But this also depends on your definition of a 'great battle.' It's certainly not suitable for a Hornburg/Minas Tirith situation, nor for a Battle of the Last Alliance kind of thing... but then few places in Middle-earth are really suited to that (and Tolkien already used most of them).

Balthazar_Estat
01/27/2006 9:40 AM

How about doing something along the lines of the battle of hobbiton. Maybe some goblins or orcs decide they want it? I think that hobbiton would be a great place for a battle.

Caelin
01/27/2006 10:07 AM

Balthasar, Bree is on the outskirts of the Shire.

Another option would be to place the story in the deserts of Khand or in Rhun, amongst the warring tribes of the easterlings. Take your pick. :)

Balthazar_Estat
01/28/2006 8:50 AM

I know where Bree is, I just thought acctually in the shire would be good.

Caelin
01/28/2006 2:30 PM

Well, I don't know how well-versed you are, but the shire already had a battle depicted in the book. The scouring. :)

Damien
01/28/2006 11:56 PM

I really like the idea of Khand or Harad being the setting, but it presents certain limitations. The first, and most obvious, is that it can hurt the Middle-earth [i]feel[/i] to have the characters so far away from much of what really makes characterizes the setting. Secondly, it could be difficult to justify any characters besides Easterlings and Haradrim, and maybe a few Black Numenoreans depending on the timeline.


An idea might be to set the RP about 60 years into the Fourth Age. By this time there is peace between Gondor and most of Sauron's old lands, including the far East and South. So it would make sense for characters to occasionally be travelling so far away. Further, there may still be tribal wars going on, which allows Gondorians and Rohirrim to be acting as go-betweens, perhaps who eventually get caught in the struggle and must choose to support one of the chieftains in order to re-stabilize peace in the area, as Gondor does not want the headache of Harad or Easterling internal war.

Just a thought, though it does stray a bit from the accepted Tolkien mythos - it is well into the Fourth Age which Tolkien only briefly touched upon and thus, you can do a lot of things without feeling like you're betraying the setting.

Caelin
01/29/2006 2:46 AM

So Northern Khand or Harad or East Rhun might be perfectly suited for this, in a timeline halfway during the reign of Elessar (Aragorn) in Gondor.

How does this sound to the rest of you?

Damien
01/29/2006 3:39 AM

If that's the way DE chooses to go, I really recommend adding a new city to the setting. Make it a Gondorian/Rohirrim-founded city in the land (Khand/Harad/Rhun). The land would have a sort of Latin Kingdom Jerusalem feel to it - controlled and organized according to the styles and society of the West, but introduced to the flavour and taste of the East.

In this way, the players could at once feel immersed in the Easterly setting, while still having a firm 'grounding' in the Tolkien mythos by keeping the Gondorian/Rohirrim culture close at hand.

Just a thought, and only relevant if DE wants to use the proposed idea.

Shallandra
01/29/2006 7:23 AM

Hey now - you experts are making it awfully complicated for the Little Folk. If you get too caught up in the details, then people who aren't experts will get so stressed out about the details that the RP portion won't be any fun.

Dark_Elf - I'd recommend doing a Middle-Earth-like RP - and just put it in the General Roleplaying section. Ha, maybe it can be a parallel universe - then it won't matter if you know all the details or not. You're the threadmaster - so you can take your RP whatever direction you'd like.

If you want to put in the Middle Earth section of the board, then yeah, you'd need to stay true to the setting. But being in the General forums would give you the freedom to do whatever you'd like. In fact, if you put in the General forum, I'll join in. Write whatever story line you'd like - and go with it. The only real exposure I've had to ME was through the movies, so I'm a total novice. But - I'm still willing to have a good time with it. ;)

And you experts - if it's in the General forum - you can offer suggestions if asked - but it wouldn't be your place to critique a thread anymore than it would any other RP thread. The game should be for the sake of those who enjoy playing it - not for an audience of experts. Ha - if fact, if Dark_Elf decides to go the General route - I'd recommend you avoid reading the thread alltogether - otherwise, someone's head just might explode. :P

Damien
01/29/2006 10:50 AM


Hey now - you experts are making it awfully complicated for the Little Folk



It's actually not complicated at all. We named a few places one could set a more freeform Tolkien RP in, and gave some possible plot choices. That's it. Very nice of us, if I do say so myself. Anyone that can't understand what we said, or finds it too complicated, has absolutely no business running a Middle-earth RP anyway. Basic stuff - place names and plot points.

Take my Conan RP for example. I provided lots of information about the setting for those that wanted to read it. But as the threadmaster I'm the only one really REQUIRED to know it all, because I have to be able to run the RP. If DE can't even be bothered to learn the basics of the setting, how can he expect to be able to run an RP set in it without basically having other people do it for him?



Dark_Elf - I'd recommend doing a Middle-Earth-like RP - and just put it in the General Roleplaying section. Ha, maybe it can be a parallel universe - then it won't matter if you know all the details or not. You're the threadmaster - so you can take your RP whatever direction you'd like.

If you want to put in the Middle Earth section of the board, then yeah, you'd need to stay true to the setting. But being in the General forums would give you the freedom to do whatever you'd like. In fact, if you put in the General forum, I'll join in. Write whatever story line you'd like - and go with it. The only real exposure I've had to ME was through the movies, so I'm a total novice. But - I'm still willing to have a good time with it. ;)



S'definitely a possibility. But a "Middle-earth RP" that isn't actually a Middle-earth RP loses quite a bit of its inherent charm. People want to play in Middle-earth because it's Middle-earth.. if you are able to just go "like Middle-earth" and change things willy-nilly.. what's the point in making it like Middle-earth at all? Just invent your own setting or use a fantasy setting that is more open-ended and easier to digest - like Greyhawk or even Dragonlance.




And you experts - if it's in the General forum - you can offer suggestions if asked - but it wouldn't be your place to critique a thread anymore than it would any other RP thread.


What makes you think we'd do that? We're critiquing now because it's an Ideas thread. Complaining about someone's lack of understanding of a setting in their -actual RP thread- can get you into trouble.



The game should be for the sake of those who enjoy playing it - not for an audience of experts.


The audience of experts (or at least semi-experts) are often the ones that would be joining, however. It's people that know the setting who are likely to be more interested in playing in it. To that end, you need to know what you're talking about, or not use the setting in question (or at least be able to fake like you know what you're talking about).

You don't set a game in 1920's Germany if you know absolutely nothing about the 1920's or Germany. Ya know?




Ha - if fact, if Dark_Elf decides to go the General route - I'd recommend you avoid reading the thread alltogether - otherwise, someone's head just might explode


Yeah, I think that's good advice.

Caelin
01/29/2006 12:08 PM


Hey now - you experts are making it awfully complicated for the Little Folk. If you get too caught up in the details, then people who aren't experts will get so stressed out about the details that the RP portion won't be any fun.


Shal, i'm just trying to help them decide where to place their RP and provide knowledge where needed. Hence the question what they thought of it?

Balthazar_Estat
01/29/2006 12:55 PM

I will wait until you guys have done discussing this, I didn't even know there was books on the fourth age.

Caelin I now of the scouring and was pissed when it wasn't in the actual film but I meant a one un-effected by Saruman.

Shallandra
01/29/2006 2:40 PM


It's actually not complicated at all. We named a few places one could set a more freeform Tolkien RP in, and gave some possible plot choices. That's it. Very nice of us, if I do say so myself. Anyone that can't understand what we said, or finds it too complicated, has absolutely no business running a Middle-earth RP anyway. Basic stuff - place names and plot points.


Yeah - but in reading what you guys suggested *I* started to get intimidated. And there was a suggestion that someone who didn't know a lot about ME had no business starting one - and that in itself would keep me from starting one.

I mean - I really enjoy the ME setting - and like the races, relations, timimg, etc - but I'm by no means an expert. Even when we did our ME RP here, I felt SO out of place - fearful that I'd say something that wasn't 'appropriate' for the times. So - I wanted to keep Dark_Elf from experiencing that, ya know?


S'definitely a possibility. But a "Middle-earth RP" that isn't actually a Middle-earth RP loses quite a bit of its inherent charm. People want to play in Middle-earth because it's Middle-earth.. if you are able to just go "like Middle-earth" and change things willy-nilly.. what's the point in making it like Middle-earth at all?


Well, I'm willy-nilly enough to join.

Damien
01/29/2006 4:44 PM


And there was a suggestion that someone who didn't know a lot about ME had no business starting one - and that in itself would keep me from starting one.


Well good. That was the intention. The same way you don't start an RP about the Aliens Quadrilogy without ever watching one of the movies, you don't start an RP about Middle-earth without reading and understanding the books. Nothing wrong with saying that.



I mean - I really enjoy the ME setting - and like the races, relations, timimg, etc - but I'm by no means an expert. Even when we did our ME RP here, I felt SO out of place - fearful that I'd say something that wasn't 'appropriate' for the times. So - I wanted to keep Dark_Elf from experiencing that, ya know?


No reason he should be spared from experiencing it. If he wants to run a Middle-earth RP, he needs to know the setting.

There's a difference between running and participating. Participants don't -need- to feel that way, because all they need to do is follow the threadmaster's lead and go with his ideas and what he gives everyone to work with. That's why it's so integral that the threadmaster actually know what he's talking about - he sets the tone for the entire RP. It's an important role not to be heaped on someone that really doesn't know the setting well enough to shoulder that responsibility.


That's one of the reasons Caelin and I are suggesting the Fourth Age and far from the 'established' places. It would allow DE to have a bit more freedom with what he does while still not contradicting Tolkien or messing with the established histories. It's the best combination of 'Tolkien feel' and 'flexibility' that you can get, and it would make DE's task a lot easier given his presumably smaller store of knowledge on the setting.

Shallandra
01/29/2006 6:25 PM


Well good. That was the intention. The same way you don't start an RP about the Aliens Quadrilogy without ever watching one of the movies, you don't start an RP about Middle-earth without reading and understanding the books. Nothing wrong with saying that.


There's a difference between being familiar and being an expert. Though it's possible to be in an RP and know relatively nothing about the setting - Exile and I did that in the Forgotten Realms setting, and I've not read a single book. But the RP was fun, and though probably completely true to the setting - we wrote it for OUR enjoyment - not anyone else's. If some people want to start a thread and enjoy it - regardless of their knowledge base - then more power to them. That's what this board is for - to give people a place to role play - regardless of their experience or overall knowledge of the area.



No reason he should be spared from experiencing it. If he wants to run a Middle-earth RP, he needs to know the setting.


According to whose standards? Yours? That's hardly fair. You've been studying ME for a very long time.

Damien
01/29/2006 6:42 PM


There's a difference between being familiar and being an expert.


Yes there is. But -running- an RP requires a certain level of familiarity. More than passing familiarity, at least.





it's possible to be in an RP and know relatively nothing about the setting - Exile and I did that in the Forgotten Realms setting, and I've not read a single book.


True. I never disagreed, though. But in order for you to do that -one of you- needed to know enough about the setting to make it work. Do you have to be absolutely accurate to the setting? No. But you have to know enough about it to run the RP.





But the RP was fun, and though probably completely true to the setting - we wrote it for OUR enjoyment - not anyone else's. If some people want to start a thread and enjoy it - regardless of their knowledge base - then more power to them. That's what this board is for - to give people a place to role play - regardless of their experience or overall knowledge of the area.


I don't disagree. My opinion is simply thus: If you want to run an RP in an established setting, you need enough familiarity with that setting to make it work. If you don't know anything, or only have passing familiarity - why don't you set the RP in a setting that you know so that you can run the RP properly?





According to whose standards? Yours? That's hardly fair. You've been studying ME for a very long time.



Yes, I have. But I'm not saying DE needs to have the same knowledge of the setting that Caelin and I have, only that he should have -enough- knowledge of the setting to run an RP in it.

If he doesn't know Harad from Rohan - that simply won't do. There's nothing wrong with saying that to use a -particular- setting, you should know that setting. I don't know anything about the Vampire: The Dark Ages setting. I think it would be incredibly rude and stupid of me to insist on running a Vampire: The Dark Ages game anyway - hiding behind the mantra of "it's a game that's meant to be fun, it doesn't matter if I get it right." If you can't do the setting that you're choosing justice - choose a different setting.

Just my opinion, of course.

Shallandra
01/29/2006 6:57 PM


Just my opinion, of course.


*kicks out your soapbox from under you so I can stand on it*




it's possible to be in an RP and know relatively nothing about the setting - Exile and I did that in the Forgotten Realms setting, and I've not read a single book.


True. I never disagreed, though. But in order for you to do that -one of you- needed to know enough about the setting to make it work. Do you have to be absolutely accurate to the setting? No. But you have to know enough about it to run the RP.


Exile knew very little about the setting - and I only knew what I'd google'd online with respect to the gods my elven character might worship. Other than that - I made up powers and spells - having no clue whether or not it was appropriate for the setting. Exile did many similar things with his own character's background. It was a lot of fun for the both of us. If we'd waited for someone with a lot of knowledge of the area to start the RP, we'd not have had the adventure that we did.



If he doesn't know Harad from Rohan - that simply won't do.


Where the heck is Harad?

Oh - I guess I can't start a thread since I don't know that.

Maybe you'd like to put together some sort of ThreadMaster Quiz?!?

Damien
01/29/2006 7:08 PM


*kicks out your soapbox from under you so I can stand on it*


Be careful with that. It's old - I've been using it for a long time.




Exile knew very little about the setting - and I only knew what I'd google'd online with respect to the gods my elven character might worship. Other than that - I made up powers and spells - having no clue whether or not it was appropriate for the setting. Exile did many similar things with his own character's background. It was a lot of fun for the both of us. If we'd waited for someone with a lot of knowledge of the area to start the RP, we'd not have had the adventure that we did.


But you looked up the gods. He obviously looked up a few things. It worked.

If DE just wants to read a few passages in the Encyclopedia of Arda and google a map of Middle-earth, then cool beans. Like I said - it takes a familiarity with the setting, that's all.

Faerun is a different beast altogether. It's more 'typical fantasy.' If you've read fantasy, you can fake a Faerun RP for quite awhile without deviating all that much from the setting's actual specifics.




Where the heck is Harad?


South of Mordor.




Oh - I guess I can't start a thread since I don't know that.


Of course you could. The RP would just suck. ;)







Maybe you'd like to put together some sort of ThreadMaster Quiz?!?



Psh.. that isn't a bad idea, so don't tempt me.

Shallandra
01/29/2006 7:33 PM


Be careful with that. It's old - I've been using it for a long time.


Obviously. Your bootsprints are worn into the darn thing. I'm actually surprised it's able to detach from your feet.



If DE just wants to read a few passages in the Encyclopedia of Arda and google a map of Middle-earth, then cool beans. Like I said - it takes a familiarity with the setting, that's all.


Well, you made it sound as though he had to know the town of the age of the father's mother's brother's cousin twice removed from Smegal (or however you spell it, which I'm sure you'll correct in your predictable reply).




Oh - I guess I can't start a thread since I don't know that.


Of course you could. The RP would just suck. ;)


You know - just for that - I might. Maybe I'll call it Lower-Middle-Earth and have a hobbit make a love child with an orc!

Well - we've hijacked DE's thread long enough I think. But this would be an interesting discussion to continue over in the RP Discussions Forums. Of course, you'll reply here, because you ALWAYS have to have the last word. But I'll permit you to have it. And start a thread over there.

Balthazar_Estat
01/30/2006 4:45 AM

Haven't you two stopped arguing yet?
Wow you two could be going out and it would seem normal.

Dark_Elf57
01/30/2006 4:53 AM

What time did "The Lord of the Rings" happen in?

Damien
01/30/2006 7:51 AM


Haven't you two stopped arguing yet?


Nope. We carried it into another thread.



Wow you two could be going out and it would seem normal.


Ding ding ding! What do we have for our winner, Johnny?





What time did "The Lord of the Rings" happen in?


The War of the Ring began June 20th in the year 3018 of the Third Age, and ended November 3rd, 3019 of the Third Age.



You can find tidbits of useful information like the Encyclopedia of Arda (www.glyphweb.com/arda)

Caelin
01/30/2006 10:01 AM


The War of the Ring began June 20th in the year 3018 of the Third Age, and ended November 3rd, 3019 of the Third Age.


At the ascendance of Aragorn on the throne of Gondor, the Fourth Age started. Elessar died in 120 FA, after which Legolas and Gimli sailed to the undying lands together, the last of the fellowship that were alive at that time.

And don't worry, DE, were trying to make this easier for you. :)

Dark_Elf57
01/31/2006 4:50 AM



The War of the Ring began June 20th in the year 3018 of the Third Age, and ended November 3rd, 3019 of the Third Age.



I'm thinking that the rp should take place way before then.

Caelin
01/31/2006 11:40 AM

Uhmmm, in that case, DE, you might want to start doing research straight away, as the further you go back in time, the more details Tolkien wrote. Other places, names, etc.

Did you check the link that Damien gave yet, the one that calls itself "encyclopedia of arda"?

Dark_Elf57
02/01/2006 4:35 AM


Uhmmm, in that case, DE, you might want to start doing research straight away, as the further you go back in time, the more details Tolkien wrote. Other places, names, etc.


OK, thank you




Did you check the link that Damien gave yet, the one that calls itself "encyclopedia of arda"


Yes I did, and it's very helpfull.

Caelin
02/02/2006 1:23 PM

Glad to hear, if you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

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